Scott Lerner Discussion

[ChrisPtacek]

Any advice for playing over Giant Steps or Trane changes?

I really want to push my jazz playing, which has totally stagnated, and I want to hit some more challenging material. I need some good suggestions for things to work on. I am totally obsessing over Martino lately, and really want to be able to get his vibe off of Consciousness/Live/El Hombre. It's a lot of work, and I sort of feel like his lines are too busy as a starting point, because it takes me a while to decypher them, and then a long time to apply them.

Any advice?

[scottl]

Hey Chris!! Welcome to my darkside..........

If you find any great advice for playing over GS, let me know too!!!! LOL

Obviously, the Trane changes go through several tonal centers and it would be a good idea to start by making sure you always know which one you are in. Next, I like to incorporate the individual triads in my lines. That way, I am ABSOLUTELY making the changes since the lines are comprised of the actual triads. I often hear the same approach in jazz versions of Giant Steps. As opposed to versions by guys like Greg Howe (which smokes in its own way)

Clearly playing the up a minor third and down a fourth pattern stuff is another tool.

You had to remind me about how much this tune scares me! You dog

Go ask Scott Jones on his forum. He kills on this!! He can add to what I wrote, I am sure.

Scott
_________________
www.scottlernermusic.com

[Tim G.]

Hi Chris...Giant Steps is a tough one for sure! All of Scott's suggestions are very good. As far as the triads go, try taking one triad idea and taking it through a whole chorus. For example...

Over the B, let's play a descending B major triad--F#, D#, B. So now through the rest of the changes, we want to keep that same idea--a descending triad--but we'll need to change some notes to fit all the chord changes. So, when we get to the D7, we'll play F#, D, A--a descending D major triad, as it turns out.

Now over the Gmaj7, maybe we'll play a descending B minor triad (which is like a Gmaj7 arpeggio without the G)--F#, D, B. Then over the Bb13, we can play a descending Bb major triad -- F, D, Bb. And then, over the Ebmaj7, play a descending Eb major triad, G, Eb, Bb. And so on....

So, see how that works? We're starting with a simple idea and keeping it going, making small changes in the notes to fit the chord changes, and pretty much staying in the same range on the guitar. After you do this for a while, it gets much easier, and you'll start to become more free with it all. Try this over every tune you learn, and try it with things other than triads--any melodic idea will do. Just practice taking one small idea and keeping it going for a whole chorus, or two choruses, or even a whole solo. It helps your playing be more interesting, rather than just a bunch of notes. And later you might want to expand your initial idea to a longer phrase, and do that through a whole chorus. And check out Sonny Rollins, Scott Henderson, Miles Davis, John Scofield...these guys do all this really well.

Anyway, that's just one suggestion. Keep at it! It gets easier with a little bit of practice.

Regards,

Tim G.

[stratboy151]

awesome advice from tim goynes there! ima try those triad ideas out, but not over Giant Steps cause i suck...

[Toogs]

[bluesdude]

"I am totally obsessing over Martino lately, and really want to be able to get his vibe off of Consciousness/Live/El Hombre. It's a lot of work, and I sort of feel like his lines are too busy as a starting point, because it takes me a while to decypher them, and then a long time to apply them."


I too am a huge Martino fan. In the 70's I was obssessed with Impressions from his Consciousness album. In transcribing that solo in particular I found that he does a lot of repetition of certain lines, or ideas.
I would recommend that you transcribe the slower solos (he does have some) until you get an idea of what he's doing on the fretboard. That way you'll be able to hear and understand what he's doing at a faster speed - not that we can play it . . . . .

[scottl]

[bluesdude]

Chris, here is a little bit of Pat Martino's Impressions right after the beginning melody. This should help you get an idea of what he's doing.

Am

E---------------------------------------------------------7 6 7 6 5----------
B---------------------------------------------------8----------------8 7 5----
G-----------------7--------------------------7 8 9----9--------------------7 4 5
D--------9 10 7---------------9 10 7 9 10----------------------------------
A- 7 10-----------------7 10-----------------------------------------------
E---------------------8-------------------------------------------------------

Bbm
E------------------------------------------------------------------8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8
B-5-----------------------------------3----------------------6 9-------------
G----4 3 2-----------------4 2 4 5-----4 2 5-------5 6 8------------------
D------------4--------2 5-----------------------7 8--------------------------
A---------------5 2 3-------------------------------------------------------
E--------------------------------------------------------------------------


E-9 8 7 6---------------------------------------------------------
B----------9 8 6---------6----------------------------------------
G-----------------8 5 6-----5 4 3-------------------5 3--------3 5
D------------------------------------5----------3 6--------5 6--------
A----------------------------------------6 3 4------------------------
E-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Am
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------
B-----------4----------------------------------8 6 5-------------------------5 8
G-5-----3------3-----4-----3-------------------------7 5----4-------4 5 7--
D----6-------------6-----6-----5--------------------------7----6 7----------
A-----------------------------------6 3 4-------------------------------------
E-------------------------------------------0------------------------------

[bluesdude]

Sorry . . . but I think I put the chord changes in the wrong place. Anyway, as you listen you'll know . . .