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Rasmus Guitars by Suhr
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shv



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CudBucket wrote:
shv wrote:
Another issue is that these Rasmus guitars could "steal" customers from the pro series, as they are about half the price.


I doubt it. They're different price points with different target groups. The player with only $1000 to spend wasn't going to buy a Pro anyway. Now, he could consider a Rasmus.


That's correct, but the player with $2000 to spend could end up with a Rasmus and $1000 to spend on other stuff, instead of bying a pro. But for certain Rasmus will appeal to a group of buyers that never considered a Suhr in the first place.

For us players I hope they will continue with both, the more options the better! Time will show! Smile
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atquinn



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I notice that the spec sheet says the guitars use the Gotoh 510 bridge, but don't specifically say it is the steel block model. I wonder if it will be exactly like the Suhr bridge or if they'll go with the zinc block on the imports?
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Austin
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Tone Freak



Joined: 16 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Retu wrote:
Also, the manufacturing outside the USA doesn't sound good either. I think the names "Suhr", like "Anderson Guitarworks" or "Mesa Engineering" should be kept away from the Asia-made budget line equipment. I think those names should be associated only with "the luxury" that already seasoned players can reward themselves with.


guitarchris76 wrote:
Wow, I can't help but feel like Suhr is selling out. I agree with the previous response stating that Suhr was luxury. I got a Suhr because of that association. I was looking forward to getting another one but will try my hand at an Anderson now. I bought a Porsche because there is something special about them. If they had a $20,000 Japanese model I wold have looked elsewhere because the brand simply would not mean as much. I fear that for me, this is now the case with Suhr.


I kind of feel the same way in a lot of respects. Suhr is regarded as a prestigious guitar manufacturer that is known for incredibly well built american made instruments and nothing more. So, with this new expansion, it seems like they are becoming one with the "rest" of the guitar manufacturers.....which means that their normal american made instruments could lose some of their luster and allure....at least in mentality.

I don't mean to come off sounding negative. I just didn't expect Suhr to go this route and am kind of put off by it. Although, I know it comes down to the business of things and that it might be very necessary for them to do this in order to stay competitive.
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shaddow



Joined: 14 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atquinn wrote:
I notice that the spec sheet says the guitars use the Gotoh 510 bridge, but don't specifically say it is the steel block model. I wonder if it will be exactly like the Suhr bridge or if they'll go with the zinc block on the imports?
-
Austin


Where is the spec sheet on the site?

nm, I found it, the price list has em.
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aron



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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Location: Hawaii

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a great move for them. It's kind of like the iPod Touch->Nano Line. Every price point.

However, I do think that my friends who own guitars like Andersons and other guitars will think that the Suhr line has been "lowered" probably because they will not read any further than "there's a new line of cheaper Suhrs made in Asia".

Personally I think it's cool and it would have been a guitar I would have purchased if I didn't have my beautiful Pro Series guitar.
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mike boardman



Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not surprised by this at all, esp given Ed's background.

If you look at PRS they've had great success with their SE line, which are great guitars in their own right, without their profile being damaged.

I'm surprised they will be plek'd and setup in the US.. I can't see how they'd play any different from a US model.. certainly food for thought if you want a basic Modern or Standard.

The only thing I'd question is the name... if I was a buying I'd want Suhr all over the headstock.. even if it said SE or some other moniker to denote it was an 'import'.
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PRS Private Stock 245, PRS Tremonti, Suhr Modern Set Neck Carve Top, 2 x Suhr Standard (Koa/Mahog, Basswood/Maple), Suhr MS7, Taylor 814CE, Eastman Archtop

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Last edited by mike boardman on Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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aron



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got a call from NAMM. I asked them to take pics.
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qwe200



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Pricing doesn't make sense Reply with quote

What are the core differences between a Suhr and a Rasmus? The brochure information states that:
    Pickups are Suhr made in the USA
    Bridges are same
    Same fretwire
    Body/neck shape are same as Suhr modern/standard. CNC technology should mean that the cuts are virtually identical.
    Guitars are going to be disassembled in the US and plek'd/setup by a Suhr master craftsman
    Alder is alder ... should be the same quality
    Playability and sound are close to playing a USA Suhr (in the brochure)

The differences seem to be in neck construction, paint, cheap tuners and perhaps the wiring.

So a Rasmus can be shipped from Asia, reassembled by the same Suhr staff and offered on the street for $999; while a comparable Suhr is $2200+ (with metallic paint, matching headstock and gigbag)? Something isn't adding up. The difference in quality must be substantial or we Americans need to find another line of work other than guitar building.
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shv



Joined: 11 Jan 2010
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Pricing doesn't make sense Reply with quote

qwe200 wrote:
What are the core differences between a Suhr and a Rasmus? The brochure information states that:
    Pickups are Suhr made in the USA
    Bridges are same
    Same fretwire
    Body/neck shape are same as Suhr modern/standard. CNC technology should mean that the cuts are virtually identical.
    Guitars are going to be disassembled in the US and plek'd/setup by a Suhr master craftsman
    Alder is alder ... should be the same quality
    Playability and sound are close to playing a USA Suhr (in the brochure)

The differences seem to be in neck construction, paint, cheap tuners and perhaps the wiring.

So a Rasmus can be shipped from Asia, reassembled by the same Suhr staff and offered on the street for $999; while a comparable Suhr is $1999? Something isn't adding up. The difference in quality must be substantial or we Americans need to find another line of work other than guitar building.


My point exactly. Why buy a Suhr Pro, when you can get a Rasmus for half the price, and probably at similar quality as materials/hardware is the same, and setup is on Suhr factory. My theory is that Pro guitars will disappear soon...
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aron



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here we go....






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aron



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not as configurable as a Pro Series w/regard to pickup changes. To be honest they look similar to my Charvel guitar that I have. Still, if the Charvel played like my Suhr.... wow!



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mike boardman



Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Pricing doesn't make sense Reply with quote

qwe200 wrote:
The difference in quality must be substantial or we Americans need to find another line of work other than guitar building.


I'm not so sure... I see US Suhr as a Custom Shop where you can get guitars built exactly to your specs whereas the Rasmus line will be fixed spec like the Pro.. I do agree that the non-maple top Pro Series sits in a strange position now..
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PRS Private Stock 245, PRS Tremonti, Suhr Modern Set Neck Carve Top, 2 x Suhr Standard (Koa/Mahog, Basswood/Maple), Suhr MS7, Taylor 814CE, Eastman Archtop

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makka



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 490
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Pricing doesn't make sense Reply with quote

shv wrote:
qwe200 wrote:
What are the core differences between a Suhr and a Rasmus? The brochure information states that:
    Pickups are Suhr made in the USA
    Bridges are same
    Same fretwire
    Body/neck shape are same as Suhr modern/standard. CNC technology should mean that the cuts are virtually identical.
    Guitars are going to be disassembled in the US and plek'd/setup by a Suhr master craftsman
    Alder is alder ... should be the same quality
    Playability and sound are close to playing a USA Suhr (in the brochure)

The differences seem to be in neck construction, paint, cheap tuners and perhaps the wiring.

So a Rasmus can be shipped from Asia, reassembled by the same Suhr staff and offered on the street for $999; while a comparable Suhr is $1999? Something isn't adding up. The difference in quality must be substantial or we Americans need to find another line of work other than guitar building.


My point exactly. Why buy a Suhr Pro, when you can get a Rasmus for half the price, and probably at similar quality as materials/hardware is the same, and setup is on Suhr factory. My theory is that Pro guitars will disappear soon...


I think there are some points of difference between the Rasmus and Pro series in that the Pro series are still built, assembled and finished in exactly the same way as the custom series. The only difference between the Pro and custom series is the Pro options are more limited (although shops can still order a batch of "customised" Pros) and the Pros are done in batches to reduce machinery/paint setup times.

What does concern me though is that it's possible to ship US wood to Asia, build a guitar and ship it back to the US, disassemble, Plek and reassemble for nearly half the price of a Pro. I can see where economies of scale and less hands on work will reduce the price at the factory but the price gap still seems so wide. Just how much more does it cost to apply the same process in a US based large scale factory?
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mike boardman



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Pricing doesn't make sense Reply with quote

makka wrote:
Just how much more does it cost to apply the same process in a US based large scale factory?


I would suspect the sanding / finishing of the bodies plays a large part of the saving.

Maybe there's tax benefits to producing outside the US etc...
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PRS Private Stock 245, PRS Tremonti, Suhr Modern Set Neck Carve Top, 2 x Suhr Standard (Koa/Mahog, Basswood/Maple), Suhr MS7, Taylor 814CE, Eastman Archtop

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Soldano SLO, Mesa Lonestar Special
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Pow Lee



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Pricing doesn't make sense Reply with quote

shv wrote:
qwe200 wrote:
What are the core differences between a Suhr and a Rasmus? The brochure information states that:
    Pickups are Suhr made in the USA
    Bridges are same
    Same fretwire
    Body/neck shape are same as Suhr modern/standard. CNC technology should mean that the cuts are virtually identical.
    Guitars are going to be disassembled in the US and plek'd/setup by a Suhr master craftsman
    Alder is alder ... should be the same quality
    Playability and sound are close to playing a USA Suhr (in the brochure)

The differences seem to be in neck construction, paint, cheap tuners and perhaps the wiring.

So a Rasmus can be shipped from Asia, reassembled by the same Suhr staff and offered on the street for $999; while a comparable Suhr is $1999? Something isn't adding up. The difference in quality must be substantial or we Americans need to find another line of work other than guitar building.


My point exactly. Why buy a Suhr Pro, when you can get a Rasmus for half the price, and probably at similar quality as materials/hardware is the same, and setup is on Suhr factory. My theory is that Pro guitars will disappear soon...


My thought exactly. If those guitars are any good, that will either seriously discredit the pricing of the pro series, or they will not be very good, which will justify the double price tag for a pro but in which case it will make no sense to buy a Rasmus then.
I remember someone on this forum coupla years ago predicting this would happen if Suhr continued to expand at this rate, and I for one do not like the direction this is taking, all business and globalistion principles aside.
Suhr, to me, is one of the last integer brands in the business. They stand for is the best quality control, the highest commitment, the most enthousiasm and passion in designing and trying to make things better.
And I always appreciated that they were one of the last ones NOT to go down the asian outsourcing / low price line road. It alsway felt they were the best example that quality has a price that people are gladly willing to pay.
Suddenly having an asian low price line really does not fit in that line of thought IMHO, besides, outsourcing eventually always has destructive repercussions on the national economy. Ultimately, it's like stating that the local workforce / conditions /economical system is too expensive, and you can have the same thing for less, thus ultimately destroying local jobs.
Or, the other way round, like another poster indicated, you begin to wonder what exactly the elements are that make US production so expensive in the first place? Are there overpaid workers , unnecessary taxes, avoidable costs or unnecessary stages along the production line or something? Or is it that the asian production has neither social securities, decent payrolls or loose environmental standards etc? Sorry to by cynical here, but those are the kind of questions that begin to arise in this state of things.

Building in China ( if it's China) also entrails a series of moral, political and humanistic issues that I do not like at all.
Seeing how Suhr took the market by storm in spite of their really steap pricing clearly showed that people are willing to pay more if the product is right! I can see people buy Suhrs like crazy, the business seems to thrive the way it is, so why this move?? If you serve the upper part of the market, and the sales boom, why downgrade? Does Roll Royce make a low cost Cinese model?
Yes you can argue the usual justifications, that entry level players will want a Suhr too etc, but subconsciously everyone will always know that it's a "second class or not a "real" Suhr.
And if it ever gets to the point that Fender got to, when people began to say that the mexican strats were just as good if not sometimes better than the US made, the thing is definitely going wrong.
Just my 2c.


Last edited by Pow Lee on Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:09 pm; edited 3 times in total
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